Pretty amazing place, to be sure. In fact, I'm quite popular over there, given the number of folks that respond to my posts. Problem is, with each minute spent reading their moronic I-hate-Americans diatribes, one can feel one's IQ drop point by point. Best to take snivelheader is small measured doses.

Hey, my post was directed at left wing whackos! Oh I forgot, you are one.

Ok...for the sake of discussion lets say you are correct.

Now...

Please enlighten us (KK or ???...).....How are WE going to pay for it?

Mike

The way it is SUPPOSED to work is that people PAY into the public option, just like they pay into their current private insurance. The difference is that the public option is a not-for-profit option. So, that removes things like shareholder dividends and CEO salaries. It ISN'T "free" insurance for everyone that is just going to be given away.

The argument against such a plan is that "this is the first step in killing the insurance industry". If the system was subsidized (which it shouldn't be), then maybe that is a fair argument. If the private sector is capable of doing things so much more efficiently than the public sector, as is often repeated, then they shouldn't fear the competition. No one will WANT the public option if it is a worse choice. And the public option is not being forced on anyone.

Something like spending hours online arguing about proposed legislation you only know about second-hand?

Gotcha.

I have not read it.

That's why I have reserved comment, other than to say that our current system is broken and needs to be reworked in some manner.

I did what I thought was the right thing and voted for Ron Paul.

Now I'm just watching the circus from the sidelines.

A few articles this morning mentioned that parts for bill are now being redrafted to make it (more?) explicit that non-residents can not take advantage of the new program. Seems like Dems actually responded to Wilson's remark or at least the publicity that ensued.

KK...if the coho are hitting your wogs, try skating these guys. I've had a much better strike to land ratio on them relative to wogs or other surface patterns (I'm assuming you are still in the salt).

It's interesting that abortion has come up, because I think it's a useful analogy to look at abortion issues in the health care debate.

Abortion...there will never be any agreement on it, because the two sides are not ever discussing the same thing...one side wants to shove their religious beliefs down the throats of everyone else, the other side wants everyone else to leave them alone to live their lives how they see fit...there's no "issue" to discuss.

As long as the RWWJ's are distracting themselves with anger over health care reform because people who shouldn't be "entitled" to it, they will never be able to rationally discuss the actual issue, which is how to make it more affordable for everyone.

If done properly, "entitled" or not shouldn't even be a question...the question is "what's cheaper and more reasonable?"...and when the irrelevant red herring of "illegals" comes up, it shows that just as with the birthers and deathers, the "illegals drum beaters" don't care about the economics of it, they just want to make sure that those dirty Mexicans don't get it, 'cuz they're "not entitled"...

There is a racial overtone to it, and it exists in an irrelevant context, one that has no connection to the question of whether or not a public option will increase competition, lower costs, and cover more people...the only questions that matter.

Fish on...

Todd

Sincerly,

GW Bush................the guy Hank voted for.







What were you saying, Hank?

I'm not entering into an abortion debate here, just noting that the abortion debate is useful in framing the "debate" over health care reform...to the point, neither side is talking about the same thing, so will likely never come agreement...

The 51% who are against abortion rights ought not have any abortions...problem solved.

Fish on...

Todd

I agree, but sometimes $hit happens, and when it does, there ought not be some stuffed up religious nut telling them how they should live their lives, or deal with their problems.

I'm not "pro-abortion"...I'm "pro-shutthefuckupifyouwanttorunsomeoneelse'sliveaccordingtoyourcultishbeliefs"...

Fish on...

Todd

Aha! Now y'all are starting to sound like libertarians!

how phucked up is that... rules or no rules... a world that is still at war is not a civilized one...


and as long as there are extreme lefties and righties there will never be a civilized dark side...

Hank,

Along the lines of the thread title, there doesn't seem to be any pragmatic economic alternative regarding medical care for illegal aliens. Currently they come to ERs, which I hear by law are not allowed to turn them away, altho it's uncertain how one verifies legal status during an emergency. Same with the paramedics arriving at an accident scene. Let's just say Hank appears to be down for the count, having been hit by a drunk driver. The Medic walks up and says, "I'll begin treating you Hank, just as soon as you prove to me that you're a legal resident or US citizen." We don't have a reasonable and workable means to deal with this, and as pointed out by some posts, it's small stuff in the greater scheme of US medical drama.

Then comes the abortion issue . . . really? I don't know, but maybe it's an issue. An economic pragmatist would insist on covering abortion costs, thereby avoiding all the subsequent public medical costs later attributable to the unwanted child. Looking at it strictly as an economic issue and steering clear of any ethical or moral arguement, which is a waste of time.

The system is broken. A public option is necessary for the simple fact that private health insurance has no real, only imaginary, competition otherwise. Private health insurance exists for the sole purpose of profit. It makes profit by raising rates and denying claims or coverage. There is no other way it can generate profit. Boards of Directors award CEOs who raise rates and deny coverage with multi-million dollar bonuses. Profit is the wrong purpose for health care. The system can only be fixed by adding health to the purpose of the business, with or without profit as a purpose. And ultimately, it really isn't insurance in the sense that car and home owner's fire insurance is. You may go 20 or 30 years without a car accident, wherein your premiums help cover those who do have them. You may go a lifetime and never have your house burn down, but your premiums will help cover those few who experience that misfortune. But everybody, if they live long enough, needs some medical care. Health insurance is really a glorified pre-payment plan. We pay in every month cuz the day will come when we have to cash in on some part of our premiums, some of us more than others of course, partly preventable, partly due to chance.

Sg

Illegals are here, and always will be...illegals will need health care, and always will.

What makes more economic sense? Pay for ER visits, or pay for health care?

That's the only question that should matter, but unfortunately pandering to the base will take over instead of logic whenever this discussion comes up, and we all know what Republicans pandering to the base will do...even if it makes no sense economically.

Fish on...

Todd

OK, let's have a public option. Is everyone required to pay? Is everyone required to carry insurance, public or private? Can they be required to pay? I'll lay odds ACLU will take that one on.

Pundits have already stated that young people won't buy insurance when they are getting started. so who pays their freight? Why would anyone pay if there are no pre existing condition rules? Just wait till you are in need of care and then pay, if you can.


That's the trouble with libtards. They only look one way when crossing the street. Then when they get hit in the ass they sue!

None of it really matters. The world is coming to an end anyway.

12/21/2012.

KK the Michael Savage of the Left!

The trouble with left wing whack jobs is that if they'd just shut the fuk up and admit their not all knowing, true progress could be made. Instead, they continue on with their heads stuck up their asses and their zippers down preaching to the masses how much smarter they are than everyone else.

Thats all right, our new poor people bosses will help us all reach equality!

Fuk nationalized healthcare, de regulate it and let the free market rule. Almost all of the major collapases of late have come in some part with the goverment interveneing with the free market system.